Storing information on journal pages vs dedicated files

[FlorianF]

I’m on the somewhat longer writing side of Logseq users and am coming to this tool for it’s privacy-first, local, open source and kinda markdown-based filesystem so whatever Logseq doesn’t currently do well I am trying to find workarounds and hope for a better Logseq in the future. I also participate in the community and open Feature Requests and can do Mock-Ups for what I see as a solution for a particular issue.

So far I am almost exclusively using Journal pages to drop everything in there. Create a New Block, Zoom on it (click the bullet) and go from there. It’s just like a page from there on. I am trying to have my content notes as atomic (independent) as possible and loaded with everything that a note needs to be usable and understandable in of itself. That is Title/Thesis, Support Phrases, Conclusion, along Formatting, Tags, Links, etc.

I mostly use Pages as “Support” and “Linking” structures where I have Block Refs or Embeds together with Queries and hope that, someday, these Pages will be like Dashboards where you can have all sort of Dynamically Generated Graphs and Pattern Searching Snippets that can make the Analysis and Resurfacing of your data so much more useful. I also find Pages better suited for MOCs and would use them for Very Long Form writing as Containers to Embed Blocks I still write on Journal Pages. One could write directly into a Page and then Reference the Block in a journal page -for traceability, time management,etc- but then Journals will become a mess of ((64ae9e05-6a94-45b4-a729-7d0f9d4e794f)) block refs you would have no idea what they are if you want to use another tool to read Logseq-flavoured Markdown files. Whenever I need to pick up work on some other day’s block I use the /time WIP [<appropriate description>]( ((Logseq-Block-ID)) ) Markdown Link syntax to embed the block id as a link but still have the block’s Title in Text in the current Journal Entry. That helps a lot with both portability, future-proofing and flexibility of the description you put inside [ ].

So far I have come with a pretty good solution for my needs and I have an “ever green” journal entry where I try to document my own system and update it as I reach new understandings and find newer solutions or work-arounds.

I am also trying to use as few plugins as possible and try to have an as Standard-Markdown as possible content in my atomic notes, meaning I am using Markdown Links even for Logseq-Links (ex: [<appropriate text>]( [[Logseq-Linked-Page-Name]] )), which is useful also for the possibility to link to a Page even if the Page-Name would make no sense in the text so the <appropriate text> can be anything suitable.

I have started my Graph in Mid-February this year and so far these are my stats:

PS: I am putting a lot of thought to build a personal system that ticks all the checkboxes I have set up for myself as requirements for such a tool and, even if your usecase is different, I encourage you to begin working on a system that will be consistent and bring you the results you expect from using the tool.

[candide]

It depends on the graph, tbh. For some of my graphs, the Journals are turned off entirely:

I only keep the Journals on for graphs where habit-tracking and daily logs make sense, or when having a timeline of what happened on which date is needed. For more creative or purpose-based graphs where each page has a clear function, it’s not needed.

[Siferiax]

@FlorianF

Whenever I need to pick up work on some other day’s block I use the /time WIP [<appropriate description>]( ((Logseq-Block-ID)) ) Markdown Link syntax to embed the block id as a link but still have the block’s Title in Text in the current Journal Entry. That helps a lot with both portability, future-proofing and flexibility of the description you put inside [ ].

I used to do this exact thing. However recently I’ve decided on a new workflow as this proved to be too limiting for my workflow.
Now I just keep working on the original block on the original journal page, but add links for all journal pages I worked on it.
So far that has been a nice way for me to work.
Then again I don’t really work with atomic notes.

@FlorianF

I mostly use Pages as “Support” and “Linking” structures where I have Block Refs or Embeds together with Queries

Sometimes I would do this. But mostly when I have a page it is less time sensitive and I would just write on it directly.

Though I’ve recently built an interesting flow for my gaming related notes. I often take notes about games.
I also have a habit of “forgetting” about a game. Then coming back and having no clue what I have and have not done.
So recently I have decided to keep a logbook. At the same time I need my daily journals “small” and organised to extract value from them.
What I do now is on the journal page I will note that I played the game by adding a link to the page for that game. Then while playing I will have that page open for my notes etc.
It will also have a logbook block on it. There I’ll add the link to the journal page of today as a new block and then under it in nested blocks I’ll note what I did in game. (Depends on the game how detailed it is.)
This way my journal page won’t get cluttered, I have a full logbook in 1 place and I can still see (through linked references) what I did in game on the journal page.

@FlorianF

One could write directly into a Page and then Reference the Block in a journal page -for traceability, time management,etc- but then Journals will become a mess of ((64ae9e05-6a94-45b4-a729-7d0f9d4e794f)) block refs

This would also not be the case then. Because we can link the block to the journal with a page ref and then see it in the journal’s linked references. As far as traceability goes it would work. Though for external tool usage it would be very limiting.

@FlorianF

I have an “ever green” journal entry where I try to document my own system

Can recommend! I myself have a dedicated page for the same

[FlorianF]

@Siferiax

@FlorianF

One could write directly into a Page and then Reference the Block in a journal page -for traceability, time management,etc- but then Journals will become a mess of ((64ae9e05-6a94-45b4-a729-7d0f9d4e794f)) block refs

This would also not be the case then. Because we can link the block to the journal with a page ref and then see it in the journal’s linked references. As far as traceability goes it would work. Though for external tool usage it would be very limiting.

If I understood this right then it made me feel like confessing a funny way to use pages: as bridges to the original journal entry. So, whenever I am pursuing a new topic, I would create a [[ ]] page for it and place the Block Ref or Block Embed on the first bullet in that page. This way, whenever I don’t feel Like using /time wip [description]( ((block-ref-id)) ), I just use /time wip [[topic]] or, if namespaces are used, i use /time wip [sub-topic@topic]( [[topic/subtopic]] ), where sub-topic@topic is uniquely identifying any subtopic, even if in the namespace I have deeper hierarchies (ex: for the following namespace: /my/property/Aspen/cabin/kitchen I would use [kitchen@cabin](/my/property/Aspen/cabin/kitchen), while if I also had a cabin in the Alps I would use kitchen@Alps) and then I hover the Logseq-Page-Link, it shows the page content, then I click on the target bullet to take me straight zoomed on that topic.

Ex:

I can even click on the block to go to Edit Mode and grab the title and paste it in the journal.

In the above example, I have built a sort of MOC in the page itself, where I have Markdown Links to Block Refs somewhere in the Journals. I could have used simple Logseq Ref-IDs for this, as I don’t really care for pages to carry persistent information, but chose to experiment with Markdown Links at teh time.

Having said this, I wish so much that Logseq would not only copy the block ref id when doing Ctrl+C but also copying the first 50 say (user-defined) characters from that block’s first line and, when the user pastes it with Ctrl+V, it would be a proper Markdown Link like so: [50characters of the first row of the referenced block]( ((Logseq-Blocl_ref-ID)) ).

[Siferiax]

What you describe also reminds of a video by Tools on Tech on slip notes.

How I'm using the Slipnote method to build better notes in Logseq

I like that idea of consolidating journal entries on a topic onto 1 page using refs and embeds.
I just don’t think the other way around makes sense. That was the point I was trying to make anyway

I stepped away from this altogether though. But that’s more personal preference in regards to how my thinking works.

[FlorianF]

Yes, looks similar with how I see pages as containers of journal metadata (block Refs, Block Embeds) and as Query dashboards :).

One reason that I believe that everything you do today should somehow end up on your today’s journal page, however lengthy or complex that would make it (even writing a few chapters on your new book) is that in the very short future you will be able to analyze (with AI or with Logseq tools or whatever), your evolution on different topics, or some things that I can’t even imagine right now. Having all that info scattered in the myriad pages you touch each day and also in journals seems to me a quite cumbersome way to making sense of it all with some cool analytics down the line.

Then again, I feel there are so many things that I lack in understanding that I can’t be sure I am right :).

[Siferiax]

I think that indeed would be valuable, though I disagree that we have to take all the notes on the journal to be able to achieve this.
I also think it depends on personal needs/preferences. As well as the purpose of the note.

My notes are often exploring how I wish to solve a problem.
At first I did this by constantly adding more blocks in the journal with a reference to the block I was commenting on.
However as I looked back at such threads of thought they didn’t offer the value I needed from them.
My thoughts get refined with time. Since implementing the way to refine the same block (incl. child blocks) over time I could actually get value out of it.

This gets back to that personal preference. Mimicking other people’s workflows is a good start, but you should adapt the proces to fit your needs as you go.
But you’ll only figure out your needs by trying out different ways of doing things as you run into some sort of obstacle.

As for the purpose of the note. Not all notes need a time attached to them. A note about “return with object x to place y” in one of my game pages is completely outside of time. It doesn’t matter when that note was taken. It is simply a reminder of a future action (when object x is obtained) to be executed.

But then again, I guess I use Logseq for completely different things than a lot of people

[FlorianF]

@Siferiax

However as I looked back at such threads of thought they didn’t offer the value I needed from them.

I often feel I don’t get enough value from my journal entries as I should. Aside from missing tools/plugins.AI Assistant, Logseq doesn’t make it easy either because queries are difficult to grasp (more exactly the complex ones) and logseq-specific metadata seems to pollute the journal pages and logseq pages too much. I am tryying to avoid that as much as possible to that’s why I might not use the best Logseq offers.

@Siferiax

At first I did this by constantly adding more blocks in the journal with a reference to the block I was commenting on.

Are you referring to the sort of WIP ((block-ref-id))?

@Siferiax

Since implementing the way to refine the same block (incl. child blocks) over time I could actually get value out of it.

Can you explain more on this? It sounds like an ever-green note but I am not sure to what kind of workflow you are referring to.

[Ngungu]

@Siferiax [quote=“Siferiax, post:23, topic:18796”]

@FlorianF

One could write directly into a Page and then Reference the Block in a journal page -for traceability, time management,etc- but then Journals will become a mess of ((64ae9e05-6a94-45b4-a729-7d0f9d4e794f)) block refs

@Siferiax

This would also not be the case then. Because we can link the block to the journal with a page ref and then see it in the journal’s linked references.

I am not sure I understand. How does “ seeing it in the journal’s linked references” get around not seeing block refs like ((64ae9e05-6a94-45b4-a729-7d0f9d4e794f)) .

I mean, a reference to a block means linking to the block’s id, which is always an alphanumeric combination.

[Siferiax]

@FlorianF

I often feel I don’t get enough value from my journal entries as I should.

I think the first step would be defining what value you are looking to get out of it.
I like to approach my workflow not as something to optimize, but instead tweak when necessary.
So if I bump into something that isn’t working for me, I analyse why and then figure out a different approach to reach a better workflow.
Otherwise, it is good enough as is.

@FlorianF

Are you referring to the sort of WIP ((block-ref-id))?

Yeah, here’s an example of what I had.

And maybe it would branch off further so I would have [description](link) to one of the subblocks as well. It became a mess.

Now (one of my actual notes) looks like this:

This was actually my note trying to work out a better way
As you can in the updates property there are 5 days where I worked on this.
(also hooray for working in two languages lol)

@FlorianF

Can you explain more on this? It sounds like an ever-green note but I am not sure to what kind of workflow you are referring to.

Well there you go, an example of my current note taking
And my workflow is my own, I don’t really follow any conventional workflow. I just pick and choose from what I read.

@Ngungu

I am not sure I understand. How does “ seeing it in the journal’s linked references” get around not seeing block refs like ((64ae9e05-6a94-45b4-a729-7d0f9d4e794f)) .

I mean, a reference to a block means linking to the blocks id, which is always an alphanumeric combination.

I mean like this. This is at the bottom of the journal page for July 1st. So it doesn’t clutter the rest of the journal page.